Puppy seizures on day of collection!!!

[AndrewArmitage]

Hello Everyone,

I will try and keep this concise as its surreal what is going on. I came on here a year ago and got some great advice about my search for a puppy. A lot of time and effort went into my search and I found a breeder I trusted and who did all the correct health checks & is part of the Kennel Club. I was on a waiting list and when the puppies were born, I met them and both parents. Choose one at 4 weeks, which I was aware is early but due to my circumstances and them being up north that is what had to be done. I collected Hudson yesterday. He has had both his first vaccinations, eye checks etc. He was very chilled and affectionate, which is his mother’s temperament. 5-hour journey, with lots of little breaks. He did drink a lot on one of the stops. Not long after we got him inside, he threw up all his breakfast from 6 hours before, and a lot was still not digested.

Then not long after had multiple seizures. Both stretching out long, head up to the sky and shaking/paddling feet and also running around violently on the floor sideways in circles. He then wouldn’t stop crying. The first seizure started as if he was sneezing and trying to bring something up.

I got a video call with a vet through my pet insurance asap and within 20 minutes we had the call, and I took him to my Vet. His temperature was fine and so waa his heart rate. He was salivating a lot still, and during the seizures he got very wet, not sure if sweat or urine or both. They put him on a drip and then I had to take him to another vet for overnight monitoring, on arrival he had another seizure, this one very short.

This has already cost me nearly 1k and I think I owe them another. I have spoken to the breeder a lot as he is worried and not sure why this happened.

But he did say one of the other puppies had a seizure after the long care journey back but has been fine since.

The vets are still running tests to check for a shunt as did not think the ammonia test was that clear. Waiting on the bile acid stimulation test.

He is eating well, but still low energy for a 11 week old puppy. Both vets said it may be impossible to know what has exactly caused these. Could be the stress of leaving his mum, home, long care ride, new environment.

Has anyone has a puppy who had seizures. I have read about epilepsy but not in such young puppies.

Thank you in advance
Andrew
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[zeta1454]

Hello Andrew, I know we had several email conversations earlier this year about finding a good breeder / puppy and I am so upset to hear of the traumatic experience you have been going through with little Hudson.

I do hope that Hudson does make a full recovery and his energy levels return. The suggestions from the vets are possible but not very likely with a puppy from a good breeder. We have brought puppies home on long car journeys of 4-5 hours in the past and people getting a puppy from us who live a long distance have similarly travelled many hours by car or train with a puppy and never had this kind of reaction. It is possible that a puppy may be car sick or even vomit from stress in a new environment but something very major would have to occurred to cause the kind of seizures you describe..or possibly the moderate stress of leaving the birth home aggravated or triggered an underlying issue?

I wonder if the vets have also considered any adverse reaction to a treatment that was given previous to Hudson leaving the breeder? You mentioned that he was vaccinated before leaving the breeder - and seizures are a known adverse reaction in certain dogs to vaccines as to anti-parasite treatments.

Although I have not experienced seizures with a young puppy, I have sadly gone through the trauma of a well bred beautiful miniature schnauzer puppy suffering brain damage after her puppy vaccinations which was not diagnosed as such by our vet at the time but after months of struggling with the effects of her neurological issue, a different vet did confirm after bile acid / liver tests etc. and a 2 hour consultation, that she had in all likelihood suffered a severe adverse vaccine reaction. I do also know personally of several other people - owners and good breeders - whose puppies have been affected adversely with seizures and/or other neurological complications including some who have died. The highest number of adverse reactions to vaccination is recognised as being due to the Leptospirosis vaccine*. We no longer have any of our dogs vaccinated with the Lepto vaccines at any time and puppy vaccines are only given at 12 weeks or more of age so that only one set of DHP should be needed. There is a Facebook group set up to support and share experiences of people whose puppies or older dogs have had adverse reactions to this specific vaccine - “Nobivac Lepto4 our experiences” . Our previous vet also advised that she would never give the modified live vaccines (DHP) to a puppy at the same time as the killed bacterial vaccine (Lepto) but, if a puppy was having both that they were given with a two week gap between.

I realise that this is speculative but it is based on personal experience and knowledge of what people I know have experienced. It may be that Hudson did not have the Lepto vaccine in any event although any vaccine can cause an adverse reaction.** While the liver / bile acid tests are pretty standard in the circumstances and may prove positive for a shunt, I would seriously consider whether an adverse reaction (however rare the vets claim they are) could be implicated in this. It will certainly make a difference as regards your pet insurance, I would think, so do be confident in any diagnosis of a hereditary / congenital condition that it is proven beyond doubt.

* Of the leptospirosis vaccine, World Small Animal Vaccination Association states: “Vaccination should be restricted to use in geographical areas where a significant risk of exposure has been established or for dogs whose lifestyle places them at significant risk. These dogs should be vaccinated at 12–16 weeks of age, with a second dose 3–4 weeks later, and then at intervals of 9–12 months until the risk has been reduced. This vaccine is the one least likely to provide adequate and prolonged protection, and therefore must be administered annually or more often for animals at high risk. There are many different serovars (strains) of Leptospira in the world. Leptospirosis in dogs is most often caused by one of a small number (four to six) of these serovars. The vaccines available today contain the serovars that are most often the cause of canine leptospirosis in a particular geographical area. This product is associated with as many or more adverse reactions than occur for any other vaccine. In particular, veterinarians are advised of reports of acute anaphylaxis in toy breeds following administration of leptospirosis vaccines. Routine vaccination of toy breeds should only be considered in dogs known to have a very high risk of exposure.”

Simply, this means:
1. The leptospirosis vaccine provides protection for a maximum of 12 – 18 months.
2. This vaccine can be associated with adverse reactions.
3. This vaccine should only be given if there is a real risk….”

** From the MSD Veterinary Manual:
“Modern, licensed vaccines are subjected to rigorous safety and quality control standards and hence are very safe….Nevertheless, they are not always innocuous. The more common risks associated with vaccines include mild toxicity, which may cause injection-site reactions, depression, allergic responses, disease in immunodeficient hosts (modified live vaccines), neurologic complications, and rarely, contamination with other live agents.”

[AndrewArmitage]

Hi,

Thank you for all of this information. He is back home and well rested and full of energy now. They ended up saying they do not think he has a shunt from the results they got. Such a scary few days and I really hope it does not happen again.

Andrew & Hudson
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[zeta1454]

Wonderful news

I am so glad to hear that Hudson is home and well now. I would be extra careful though in the future with any medications / pharmaceutical products or anything that is known to provoke seizures and always remind the vets of his history with this if anything is prescribed.

Re certain flea treatments which are known to cause seizures in dogs but have not been withdrawn from sale:

https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/a ... oline-flea

Hope to see photos and hear more about Hudson’s progress now he is settling in to your family

[Bean]

Sorry, I’ve only just read this post. How utterly dreadful. But I found the moderators advice very useful and educating. I looked at the link and saw nexgard product, one to avoid. 2 separate vets have tried to give me that product, both of which I refused (I’d read about it a good while ago). When I mentioned to one of the vets about the neurological problems it had caused in some pets, the response was ‘well it’s only a small percentage’ I was horrified. After all that I’m so glad Hudson is better now.