New Vaccination Guidelines WSAVA

[Caramomo]

Hmmmm

That's why I'm not 100% decided yet - it's possible that I'll do the puppy vaccination but the Beardies can have autoimmune issues so it's made me wary.

Still investigating as I've got time yet to decide

I don't want to teach you to suck eggs but have you checked if your vet is familiar with collies? I remember that there are certain medications they shouldn't be given so its worth checking your vet is familiar with this group.

[Maty]

Hmmmm

That's why I'm not 100% decided yet - it's possible that I'll do the puppy vaccination but the Beardies can have autoimmune issues so it's made me wary.

Still investigating as I've got time yet to decide

I don't want to teach you to suck eggs but have you checked if your vet is familiar with collies? I remember that there are certain medications they shouldn't be given so its worth checking your vet is familiar with this group.

Funny you should mention this, my dog walking chums were talking about this last night as a collie locally nearly died when given the wrong thing. Wasn't listening close enough to know what it was given as I was trying to stop Rodders running off to see another dog

[Caramomo]

I think some of the stuff they shouldn't have is amongst the more common types of medications, pain killers, anti-inflammatories and antibiotics spring to mind.

[blackgiant]

I'm lucky to have a vet who listens and looks into things for himself, also the breeder of my puppy has extensive experience of the Bearded Collie breed.

I'm still looking into the vaccination issue - whatever I decide won't happen until puppy is at least 12-14 weeks old anyway

It's so difficult to decide what's best as I want to set my puppy up for a healthy life and it's a big step to take since we've all been so used to vaccinating regularly.

My existing dogs haven't been vaccinated for at least 3 years as I have been uncomfortable about the whole vaccination issue for some time.

[blackgiant]

I've been reading extensively about the pros and cons of vaccinating and can't take the huge leap of not vaccinating my new puppy - it's just too big a step to take.

I've decided to vaccinate him at 10-12 weeks

Leigh your suggestion of Thuja is very interesting and I've ordered some after reading about the beneficial qualities of it - thank you.

I'll review what to do later in his life depending on what research and advice is out there at the time

It's a fascinating subject which needs to be highlighted regularly as I think we all need to look into what medications we give our dogs - and how often we give it

Thank you for posting the up to date information

[allison 69]

Very interesting!

I also wonder where you stand with insurance cover if you are not vaccinating annually.....

I no about 8yrs ago when i didnt get my giants booster done after a scare about small amount of anti freeze in boosters ..i was with direct line and my girl had an ear infection.. because i didnt booster her it had made my insurance void and was unable to claim for bloods,swobs antibiotics etc. So it may be worth ringing your insurance to find out were you stand. Personally i no longer have insurance i just put the same amount away each month and leave it until i may need it for the vets x

[Morgana99]

This is definitely a topic that concerns me. I compare it to people's often rigid views a few years ago on quarantine. I was part of a lobby group to try & get a common sense attitude to that, based on scientific fact & a changing world situation. Although change did come eventually, it didn't happen quickly and certainly not quickly enough to prevent the trauma of having to put our two Beardies into jail for 6 months. Awful, for them & us & totally unnecessary by that time.
I see the whole vaccination thing as a similar debate in that it's been in place for yonks, has so many vested interests who earn a great deal of money from it and are, therefore, resistant to change, no matter advancements in knowledge and the ability to do more sophisticated testing, reporting, etc.
Apart from some vets and insurance companies, for the moment if any of us are in situations where we have to put our pets into boarding kennels, you cannot do this without having to produce current certificates of full vaccination & kennel cough. There are no doubt other, similar, dependencies.
I feel that it is essential for puppies to be vaccinated at the outset, although if it can be made safer, I'd be in favour of that too. However, for some time I've felt uncomfortable with the frequency & strength of top-ups and the effect of injecting my dogs with such substances, possibly for no good reason. If there is a chance this could change, based on reliable data & expert advice, this would be a really big cause for celebration in my opinion

[Ro Peach]

I have just spotted this post and have read all the comments with interest. Fifteen years ago I read an article in a Pets magazine discussing this topic. The quest Vet writing the article was of the opinion that we vastly over inoculate our dogs and that the vaccines themselves can cause more problems than they prevent especially now that dogs are not left roaming the streets and scavenging.
As a result after Sophie and Chloe had had all their puppy and first booster jabs I did not have them inoculated. All I can say is that they were totally healthy for the next 12 and 15 years. Chloe died at 12 years from a brain tumour and Sophie at 15 is still very healthy. The only times she has been to the vet for treatment was to be spayed and two years ago to have some teeth removed and a rabies jab for her pet passport.

I do think that vets have a vested interest in promoting annual vaccination/ boosters. It's very lucrative for them.
Also some kennels ask to see confirmation of annual vaccines. Fortunately I do not have to use them but many people have no choice and so have to inoculate.

[zeta1454]

This article may be of interest to anyone who is looking for a more scholarly study of the length of immunity conferred by vaccination for the core diseases if carried out at the recommended age of around 16 weeks of age ( although from 10-16 weeks is possible depending on levels of maternal antibodies in the pups) Basically the conclusion of this ongoing study started in the 1970s was that if successfully immunised by vaccination as a puppy this provides immunity for up to ten years or a lifetime and any 'boosters' unnecessary for the core diseases as dogs as they mature maintain an antibody capacity to respond to attack by these diseases in the memory cells of the immune system. It also mentions the indication that repeated assaults on the immune system by vaccination on a regular basis can cause damage to the dog's immune system which fails to function as it should as a consequence.
http://www.bettercaninehealth.org.uk/up ... munity.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Even if you choose to ignore dogs who suffer anaphylactic shock and die upon being vaccinated, the health cost of repeated "boosters" or annual vaccination for any of the non core diseases is considerable as witnessed ( even on this Forum) by the increasing numbers of dogs ( even at a very young age) who are now presenting with chronic illness, tumours, cancers and auto immune illness. While some of these may be due to poor breeding I am sure they do not all fall into that category.

It still is also shocking that it would seem some vets are continuing to vaccinate dogs who are not healthy in absolute contradiction to the guidelines of the manufacturers of the vaccines! Any disease or ongoing health issue should mean vaccination is withheld - this is an example taken from the Nobivac vaccine data sheet:

"Contra-indications, warnings, etc.
Only healthy dogs should be vaccinated. The vaccine may not be effective in dogs incubating the disease at the time of vaccination.
Some animals may be immunologically incompetent and fail to respond to vaccination. Animals that have received the corresponding anti-serum or immunosuppressive drugs should not be vaccinated until an interval of at least 4 weeks has elapsed."

Vaccinating a sick or chronically ill dog or one that has a damaged or compromised immune system including those suffering auto-immune disease is more likely to aggravate their condition as their immune system struggles to deal with the vaccine as well as their underlying illness.


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[jaegervalder]

Vaccinating a sick or chronically ill dog or one that has a damaged or compromised immune system including those suffering auto-immune disease is more likely to aggravate their condition as their immune system struggles to deal with the vaccine as well as their underlying illness.



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Does that mean that JUNO with her Cushings would fall into that category?
(

[zeta1454]

Vaccinating a sick or chronically ill dog or one that has a damaged or compromised immune system including those suffering auto-immune disease is more likely to aggravate their condition as their immune system struggles to deal with the vaccine as well as their underlying illness.



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Does that mean that JUNO with her Cushings would fall into that category?
(

From all that I have read I would think it must do. So many auto-immune diseases are believed to stem from reactions to vaccination and Cushings has actually been mentioned too. But putting aside the origins of any of the illnesses the data sheets from the vaccine manufacturers are categoric that "only healthy dogs should be vaccinated" .

This link is interesting in that it highlights that many vets do not receive adequate training on the implications of vaccination at vet school and therefore may not be as able to advise clients as effectively as they should on possible adverse effects or whether vaccination is even safe for many dogs:

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/vets-on-vaccines/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You could always have Juno titer tested though as she may already have sufficient immunity against the three core diseases of distemper parvo and canine adenovirus. I have posted about the titer test and it is quite a simple blood test which will establish if a dog has circulating antibodies to disease. As long as there is a positive response vaccination is un-necessary any way and Juno will still have immunity to those diseases

[murphygrowl]

I understand what you all say,but what about pet owners who take there dogs to holiday homes and holidays outside of the uk?there is more and more people doing this instead of putting them into kennels.part of the passport a pet must of gad boosters done every year.then the dreaded sand fly which they is no cure apart from drugs for rest of they life in shush causes damage to organs within the body.so we get Alfie done every year to prevent that dreadfull disesase which must be better to prevent him catching it?

[zeta1454]

I understand what you all say,but what about pet owners who take there dogs to holiday homes and holidays outside of the uk?there is more and more people doing this instead of putting them into kennels.part of the passport a pet must of gad boosters done every year.then the dreaded sand fly which they is no cure apart from drugs for rest of they life in shush causes damage to organs within the body.so we get Alfie done every year to prevent that dreadfull disesase which must be better to prevent him catching it?

I do realise that if you take your dogs abroad you will have to fulfil any compulsory requirements as regards vaccination but, as far as I am aware for anyone travelling abroad from the UK, the only vaccination that is compulsory is for rabies not for any of the other diseases. Unless you are resident for three months or more at a time I think the booster is only every other year but I am sure others who regularly travel,abroad may know more regarding this. A preventative treatment against tapeworm is required but this is not a vaccine.
This is the link to the updated DEFRA guidelines:
https://www.gov.uk/pet-travel-informati ... accination" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you are regularly holidaying in areas infested with sand flies then the decision to give further medication to guard against this is of course yours to make. Everyone with canine family members must make their own individual assessment of the risks and benefits of any treatment they choose to give their dogs. The ideal situation would also be if all veterinary decisions on medications, vaccinations etc were tailored to individual dogs needs rather than a generalised policy with no specific account taken of size, age, breed, environment, diet, medical history etc etc. and that the vaccine manufacturers data sheets were checked carefully to discover any contra indications for use such as a pet not being healthy.

And the WSAVA guidelines are just that - guidelines which outline the current views of worldwide veterinary professionals as regards the need and frequency of certain vaccines. Given the information you must of course make your own decision whether to take them into account

[BeeBee]

I understand what you all say,but what about pet owners who take there dogs to holiday homes and holidays outside of the uk?there is more and more people doing this instead of putting them into kennels.part of the passport a pet must of gad boosters done every year.then the dreaded sand fly which they is no cure apart from drugs for rest of they life in shush causes damage to organs within the body.so we get Alfie done every year to prevent that dreadfull disesase which must be better to prevent him catching it?

The only compulsory vaccination is the rabies. (We travel every few weeks to France and have done since the Pet Passport scheme was introduced).
as well as the rabies every 2 years, it's just a worming pill they get before they come home, that's the only requirement

[Lampot+narrowlane]

Hmmmm

That's why I'm not 100% decided yet - it's possible that I'll do the puppy vaccination but the Beardies can have autoimmune issues so it's made me wary.

Still investigating as I've got time yet to decide

I don't want to teach you to suck eggs but have you checked if your vet is familiar with collies? I remember that there are certain medications they shouldn't be given so its worth checking your vet is familiar with this group.

Does anyone have pet insurance which does not insist on annual vaccinations?