Naughty teenager!

[black beard]

What a terrible day I have with Heidi today. She has been pushing her luck for a few weeks now and her perfect recall has now become hit or miss. I put her back on the training lead with the thinking that she is just going through a phase and with the training in place and some reinforcement of the command it will fall back into place.

Today I took her on a walk that is a loop taking about an hour through a village and then open fields. At the last but one field I lifted her over the style but dropped her lead as I climbed over and she did a runner. She covered that field in no time and squeezed through the fence into the next one where she spotted sheep with their new lambs. By the time I caught up with her she had chased the flock but one tiny little lamb had been left behind and Heidi was bouncing all around it play bowing etc. The poor thing was terrified and eventually just froze to the spot which was a blessing because i could then get her attention by running off in the other direction. But what if it hadn't stopped is her prey drive getting strong enough now to attack or is it just the chase she likes??

I could not get near her but managed to get her to the top of the field only to find 2 pigs had been put in!! I then tried for the next 30 mins (felt like longer) trying to get hold of the little bitch as she bounced around trying to challenge the pigs. I honestly think I tried everything I could to coax her but couldn't just walk away in case she went back to the lambs. I have socialised Heidi with sheep since we got her and she has never done anything like this before, but something tells me she might do it again. Is there something else I should be doing or is it just a case of waiting out this teenage phase?? Any Ideas would be much appreciated (crying)

[Tulip]

Oh love, you sound like you had a terrible day. We've all had them, bad days come and go - it could be prey drive kicking in, she really could have just wanted to play. From now on I would suggest keeping her on long line and really solidifying the recall with her and then move it to more high stim, i.e. in a field with sheep in it (still on line) until you feel better about it. Use reaaaaally nice treats!

And yes - it's a teenage phase! She's just getting older and more independant, with consistancy and training she'll be on her way again. Don't feel like it's your fault, she's a fantastic dog and you're an incredible owner, Donna! Keep your chin up, duck!

[stacyr]

oh dear poor you, sounds like the standard schnauzer streak strikes again. Before I looked at who posted this and just looked at the title I thought I bet thats a standard. They are little wossits arent they. Sounds like you had a nightmare. I dont think im in a position to offer advice as Im not confident enough to let my two off lead yet, but at least Heidi was just playing and nothing bad happened. Couldnt you just throttle them sometimes though

[nickycaplan]

oh dear, I remember those days............lola was exactly the same - if she saw or smelt anything interesting, she was off! - I think with Heidi, if her prey drive had really kicked in, that lamb would have been dead the moment she got near it - sounds like she did just want to play..when lola was a 'teenager' she got in a field with 2 horses, and would not come back, she bowed rang around with the zoomies, ran up to them barking, it was a nightmare. If the owner had been there, they would have gone mental at how lola was behaving around the horses. you really have to be firm with standards, they are so wilful, give em an inch and they take a mile. I must say, that Lola is now 4 and has finally calmed down(it really has taken all that time) - she comes on recall, (I Used to sit on the park bench in tears waiting for her to 'eventually' wander back to me) she stays and sits and does as she is told, but it has been a bloody long road and hard work all the way! One thing I will say, Is what workd for lola may work for Heidi, I used to turn and run in the opposite direction, when she realised I wasnt there, she came bounding back to me. (kiss)

[henrys mum]

All you can do is keep up with the training and she'll eventually get over this blip. I'd stay away from any livestock until she's got this out of her system. Can you arrange any play walks with some dogs to let her play? Also some mental exercises at home might be a good idea, eg finding treats in other rooms, choosing the tin with a toy in it, even (if you feed kibble) throwing her food on the grass in the garden then letting her find it. If she's worked mentally she might be more inclined to listen to you

[Mari Obi and Fingal]

Poor you! That must have been so difficult to you.
I agree with Nicky, if it would be prey drive, the lamb would be dead. She appears to have been playful and full of mischief!
I would also agree with the previously offered advice: keep reinforcing the recall on a long line, use really high value treats and play as a rewards (whatever she likes), work hard on her wanting to come back to you. Make yourslef and coming back so rewarding that it is better than anything else! Do not let her off the lead before the recall is solid again, and she shows real pleasure running back to you on recall, and paly attention to you when you speak to her. A good recal is always worth a little celebration!

On the other hand, you may also need to address her cheeky ways...maybe it is time to show her that when you say "no", it means "no". Follow it through, and let her know the difference of "nice Mum" and "stern Mum". Do not let her get away with cheeky behavior as it will let her undermine your authority (I talk from experience). Stern attitude does not mean that you should "womanhandle" her, it means that you make it clear to her that the cheeky times are over "now", not in 20 min when she pleases.
I managed this by ensuring a good timing and occasion, and by changing my body language and facal expression into a very stern expression. My whole attitude oozes (a near theatrical performance) stern attitude, my voice is low amd strong, eyebrows frowning, thight lips, and I bend over the dog and behave in a dominant manner to get my point across. As soon as the dog slithly lowers the head, pulls ears back, avoids eye contact and generally starts behaving in a "actually, I was not doing anything" manner, they got it.
This will also work from small distance as soon as you've done it a few times in close contact, and the dog has got the message "when Mum says no, she means no". You can literally "chase" the dog down by using a stern body language, looking really severe, pointing your finger and hand towards the dog, and slowely walking towards the it. It will find it funny to start with, but it will soon get uncomfortable and submit exhibiting the previously mentioned body language. As soon as it submits (stops being cheeky), you walk to it, put it in the lead, ask for some simple excersises like "sit" "look" "heel" for 2 meters, and then release (depending on the severity of situation) either remain calm, neutral and fair for a couple of minutes, and walk onwith the dog on the lead, or have a great game and reward, and forget all about it.

Never overdo the "punishment", and after the "punishment", make sure that you "defuse" the situation, and re/establish the happy, rewarding relationship that you normally have by a little obedinece, and treats and games on compliance.

[henrys mum]

Excellent advice Mari! When I say "NOW" you can see them going 'oh s**t she means it!'

[black beard]

Thank you all for the advice and reassurance, after a day like yesterday and the fear of her either hurting a lamb or a farmer taking a shot at her it was so difficult to get my head round what was happening. (hypnotised)

Mari I normally do a good 'stern' but even that yesterday wasn't enough for her to back down or more to the point put her bottom down! I am sure she was just so pent up from not being able to run freely for a while that she thought now I am free I'm going for it big time! I think she could just feel the panic in me and I knew if I ran in the opposite direction (which normally works) she might go back to the lambs one of which was limping a bit and I wondered if that was because she had pounced on it as she does when playing with some dogs.

I am woman enough to admit when I am wrong and got it wrong big time yesterday! I was so close to tears when we got home I couldn't look at her and then had to take her for a bath as she had devoured and rolled in copious amounts of poo and was covered in burrs, which I think she thought was all part of the punishment as I could hardly speak to her WRONG! I have to say i have never known a dog with such 'thick skin' GSD's are easy in comparison (hammer) She is lovely though and always so happy when she knows she has pleased you, so I will increase her mental stimulation, reinforce the recall, put it down to a bad day and be very, very patient!

Thanks x

[Bluebell]

Sure its just a 'blip' for you. You were being talked about today and highly praised for your work with Heidi (and what a beautiful mut she is). I am sure you will be back on the 'straight and narrow' very soon. You've come this far you will soon deal with this trauma.

Is this the time they hit the teens and play up?

[Mari Obi and Fingal]

Well,then it sounds like you are sorted, and can put it down to a bad day.
They can be SO enfuryating (sp?), can't they??!! Onwards and upwards! (bigthumbs)

[dannie_kl]

you think one heidi is hard work? i bet this bunch would be lets see......7 times as naughty as heidi! lol

we do have a problem with recall with distractions but we are working n it so it already sounds like mine could learn from heidi, chin up Donna, they all need a rebellious day once in a while!

[august23]

Oh Donna, we thought we were reading about Otto then (giggle) I know it's not funny. He has been in fields with horses, chickens, cows, but sheep have always been his favourite. He would go miles to chase sheep. The behaviourist we used said once they have done it, they get like a cocaine high and just want to do it again & again! I used a long line for ages with him, but we just couldn't go anywhere near cows, sheep etc. In the end we borrowed a friend's buzz collar. One buzz on that & he was cured. He now comes back to the whistle every time. Good luck

[black beard]

Some progress today, excellent walking on a loose lead nice and close, not at heel but I think I may have to accept this one likes to be at my side! We went to my friends house who as an enormous garden that backs on to the 'field' I wanted Heidi to have a good run off lead and a tumble with friends and then she spotted the sheep. She ran towards the fence and when I said STOP she did! I let her look at them and praised her for stopping and waiting and then she carried on playing. But here lies the problem, she will not come and I think it is because she is associating it with being put back on the lead, so I thought I will not use this command for a couple of days and then start again in the garden, then various walks and build up from there?? She is still responsive to other commands but it can be hit or miss with distractions at the moment so as Mari suggested I will work on her mental stimulation to get her attention back on me. Gawd she is a challenge and I am trying so hard to stay one step ahead, Dannie I don't know how you manage 7, your a star! Caroline if it all goes tits up can I lend that collar?? ;D

[Tulip]

Fantastic fantastic fantastic! Excellent!

Now, as for her coming back - that's actually a VERY common problem. What you can do is, keep calling her back far more regularly than you would, and when she comes back treat, just touch her collar, and then let her go again. Rinse and repeat, a lot! Soon enough she won't know which time is the real 'coming back' time - I do this from puppyhood. But she ignored the sheep, so that's a huge congrats!

[henrys mum]

I'd say, like Beth, to keep calling her back and give praise one time, treats another and don't always put the lead on at the same place! Half-way along put her lead on for a bit then take it off again so putting the lead on doesn't always mean the end of play. Keep her busy thinking of things and keep one step ahead mentally!
As for being a challenge.......she's a schnauzer!!