Hugo’s Hopeful Life Extending Experience

Looking after the health and welfare of your Schnauzer can be a full time job. You will find information on neutering, spaying, vaccinations, vet visits, upset tummies, Schnauzer bumps and much more here. Ask a question and someone will have had a similar experience. We also appreciate updates on how your Schnauzer is recuperating. A separate section is dedicated to our older Schnauzers.
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HugoBrum
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First Name: Doug
Dog #1: Hugo
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Born: 29 Nov 2019

Hugo’s Hopeful Life Extending Experience

Post by HugoBrum »

I have just come across this forum sadly in the last few hours (much to my regret) and my first post is not happy post unfortunately. My humble apologies. I write the following seeking other owners experiences, thoughts or what ever but at the same time, passing on our experience too.

A short introduction would help, we have wonderful black Giant Schnauzer called Hugo, my avatar is an image of him, his birthday is on 28th February, born in 2017. He is fantastic dog, great character and bouncy personality. He can be a handful sometimes but that is fine with us. Well that is good news.

Without going into too much detail, last Thursday we visited the Vets as Hugo was having trouble putting his back leg down. Now this issue he had before but he always recovered after a short rest so thought nothing of it. Anyway on this occasion it was more than that. Unfortunately and very sadly, after an X-Ray and some tests, we were informed he had Osteosarcoma of the l/h hind leg just above his elbow joint. There was no indication it has spread anywhere else but as I have leant, it does not mean it has not but sadly accept it will do.

As you may appreciate, this news has absolutely devestated us, talking of shedding bucketful of tears, the pain, the hurt this is causing my wife and I is just beyond belief that thsi happeneing to our beloved Hugo, who not even 4yrs old yet! Ironically, 4 years ago tomorrow (10th) we lost our German Shepherd, Kaiser who was 7 yrs old to cancer of the speen but that happen in a matter of two / three hours. One minute he was OK, next minute ...... mmmm but that was quick but the pain of that lost was huge but we manage to recover, hence arrival of Hugo. Also we are in lockdown restrictions and therefore it is just my wife and I comforting and supporting each as we got no one to turn too as such.

Anyway we are now looking at a situation we have never encounted before and dont wish it on anyone. We have got to make decisions and in simple terms to make Hugo's quality of life as best we are able too - the first priority and make the most of our time with him. As things are, he gets around on his three other legs and still full of life and he is on some painkillers too. The only differance we have noted he now prefers dry dog food than wet dog food, as well as giving him any other threats too.

As the Vet kindly put it we have three options.
1) Leave him be and make the most of the time with Hugo, as long as he is no pain (although accept that wont get any better) and not knowing how long he may have left, ceratinly weeks / couple of months?
2) We consent to amputate his l/h hind leg, by doing this remove the obvious tumor and surrounding area and after a recovery period of 2/3 weeks, he should back to his normal self with as less pain, this may extend his time with us but with no guarantee but may be at best six months, may a few weeks?
3) Is a combination of above (Option 2) along with Chemotherapy also. With the latter along with recovery time for amputation, then is approx 3 month course of treatment which includes regular checks to the Vets as will as keeping a close eye on him for any possible side affects. Again may 12 months extended life at best but again may be not, 6 months. a few weeks again!

Regardless which way you look at it, the end result is the very sadly devestatingly same that I accept. Still considerable heartache and pain. However, there is an element were the extra period we have with Hugo with option 2/3 may make things a little easier and giving Hugo and us more time to enjoy each others company but may be be able to cope better with the final outcome. However am I fooling myself though?

If you are interested, we are looking either at Option 1) or 2) as we don't think putting him through Chemo will acheive anything, if it was 4/5 years as someone said, then may be but .................... At the moment, we have booked an operation to remove his leg on Thursday but even now, I am not sure it is the right think to do, you know between a rock and a hard place is the description I suppose.

I certainly do not expect anyone on here to offer advice on what we should do, that I accept as it is our heartbreaking decision to make. But is there anyone who has gone through similar experience (not if I wish them too) and what their experience was on any of the three options stated above. What was the positives / negatives as we feel at the moment no matter what decision we make, it is going to be wrong for what ever reason.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, I am sorry. Also hopefully I am not done something out of turn too. If so my humble apologies.

(It has taken a lot for me to write the above but I am really clutching at straws)
Nina But never forget Hugo.
My owners are Doug and Glynis
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Re: Life extending experiences?

Post by zeta1454 »

Hello Doug,

I read your sad post and can only extend my heartfelt sympathy to you, Glynis and Hugo. I have no experience of this condition with any of our dogs and hope that someone else on the Forum may be able to offer some insight into coping with this kind of situation. From what little I know of osteosarcoma in dogs, you are right that the prognosis is poor whichever option you go with.

Without the benefit of experience of this particular condition but as a general comment, we had a miniature schnauzer with a progressive spinal condition where we had to make a decision regarding operation etc. In his case, he was 10 years old and we were told he was unlikely to live more than a few months without an operation but, given his age and the site of the problem, surgery was extremely risky. We decided not to have surgery but to do all we could to make his last months as good as possible, had a set of wheels made for him to walk as he had lost the full movement of both hind legs, and gave him as much love, care and times out and about as we could. He lived three months beyond his 11th birthday when his condition deteriorated to the point we decided to let him pass with dignity before things became worse for him.

I know this is a different scenario but just to say that there really is no one right answer in these kind of circumstances and it is so hard when you are shocked and grief stricken to have to try and make the decision that is best for all three of you but especially for Hugo. I do hope someone can offer you more insight into their decisions and experience in this specific situation especially with such a young dog.

Do let us know on the Forum how things go with Hugo and thank you for sharing this with us. Take care and best wishes to you all.
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

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Re: Life extending experiences?

Post by Oscar 12345 »

Doug and Glynis, so sorry to hear this absolutely devastating news about Hugo who looks magnificent in that photo. I do wish you the best of luck on your journey with this awful disease. I can't help with your question as I have no experience, I do know of some owners of large dogs who have done really well on 3 legs. There is a Facebook group which you might not be aware of... "Tripaws - three legged dogs, https://www.facebook.com/groups/4311677292. I am sure there will be some advice and experience for you on there. Best wishes to you and of course Hugo.
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Re: Life extending experiences?

Post by Dawnspell »

So sorry to hear your sad news. I dont envy you having to make the decisions you have to.

I know for humans chemo is an awful treatment to go through, but from what I've seen and read dogs dont experience the same side effects that we do. Some not even showing any side effects at all through treatment, if that is a concern for you for not wanting option 3. I'm sure theres a facebook group for that too for you to gain more info.

Keep us updated on Hugo, sending hugs :ymhug:
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Re: Life extending experiences?

Post by HugoBrum »

Thank you 'Zeta 1454', 'Oscar 12345' and 'Dawnspell' for your kinds thoughts and wishes. I do realise it is not a nice position to be in to read such a message, not knowing what to say or do BUT you still took the time to reply never the less. Thank you.

Currently we have less than two hours to confirm or otherwise whether to have 'coxofermoral disarticulation' amputation booked for tomorrow and I still don't know what to do, although my lovely lady thinks we should not and spend as much time as possible now with him and make the most of it too. That I understand and see the reasons behind it. However, I see it slightly different but is this about 'me' and not Hugo though, I wonder? My feelings suggest he deserves a chance and a longer life but the final result will still be the same, whether 1/2 months, 5/6 months and if we are extremely lucky may be 12 months but it IS all about his quality of life and which is the best. Doing nothing means farewell sooner that I know for sure but we are there for him that is for sure.

We are both for sure, struggling, numb, emotionally broken and anything else that comes into it and its absolutely horrible. Why, why is life so cruel not just for animals but humans too. The current Covid 19 climate makes it worst obviously, were they may be phyiscal / close support, it is not there now but relying on the internet to do the business instead.

I am sorry to express my thoughts and feelings but I have no other way in doing so. Please forgive me, but I must go now and keep pondering. Thank you.
Nina But never forget Hugo.
My owners are Doug and Glynis
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HugoBrum
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Re: Hugo hopeful life extending experience.

Post by HugoBrum »

Following on from previous message and 17.00hrs has now been and gone, we have made the decision to proceed with the amputation after having further dialogue with our lovely Vet. Over the last 48 hours, we have agonised along with the emotional turmoil attempting to take ALL things into consideration to see what is the best option for Hugo as tomorrow was in a nutshell our last chance saloon for a 'hopeful' improvement of Hugo's quality of life for the short to medium term at best.

Clearly our biggest fear (and still is) having the operation, along with the recovery period (approx 10/14 days?) is that (eg) one week later it is farewell and we have wasted two weeks of Hugo's precious life and lost the opportunity to make the most of it. Sadly we dont have a crystal ball. However, the alternative option in not having the amputation is not one we realise we could not deal with, is watching the cancerous growth visably enlarging knowing the damage that could be causing to Hugo as well been in discomfort and painful too. Also a reasonable chance of shortening his life in consequence to weeks. Yes we accept there will / may be cells elsewhere but not at the moment making obvious encroachment although they will do.

Over the last few days, we have been making most of our time with him but in many ways he is still active in brain and phyiscally on his three legs already (the infected one remains permanently raised). Using his bed (quilt) as a 'humping' tool occasionally, still wants play tug a war with his rope, and chase slowly his squeeky ball in the garden One thing that has changed in his food intake were we are still trying to find the right balance in the light he does not want wet dog food anymore. We are getting there slowly with some dry food, toast, boiled chicken and other little tit bits too, as well Hugo is drinking a bit more in consequence. He did a short while ago, had scrabbled egg which was good news. However, last night was funny especially when we got up this morning as Hugo sleeps in his 'open top' large cage as he manage to drag / push the cage across the floor to reach for the loaf of bread that was left on the work top. Suffice to say, some bread eaten as well as shredded! However, that does suggest we have not got his food intake quite at the level it should be. Must work harder hey, but clearly Hugo is not prepared to give up although he is on some medication to ease any pain and possible warm temperature too.

Anyway, with above thoughts in mind, Vet thinks Hugo should make a good recovery and with an element of luck, get some extended time with him in consequence. Regardless, it is a risk never the less and as we all know, there are no guarantees what so ever. Whether it turns out that way that it is the right decision is yet to be seen.

Glynis and I realise, tomorrow is going to an extremely hard emotional worrying day and we sincerely hope of a good outcome. Taking Hugo to the Vets, leaving him there and fingers cross, collect Hugo much later on, tehn to try and accept the visual shock I much imagine, who knows!

Assuming the moderators and members do not mind, I will try to give updates as and when (fingers cross) which may assist other owners if they ever (god forbid) in a similar situation / experience. Thank you for your time and patience if you read this thread.
Nina But never forget Hugo.
My owners are Doug and Glynis
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Re: Life extending experiences?

Post by zeta1454 »

Thank you for sharing this. Thinking of you all and please do give updates whenever you are able. It will be invaluable for any others who may go through a similar trauma.

Paws and fingers crossed for Hugo’s operation and hope he is back home with you very soon.
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

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Re: Life extending experiences?

Post by Dawnspell »

Thinking of the 3 of you today and sending hugs.

Please vent as much as you like. Many of us have gone through traumatic experiences with our dogs, myself included, and forum members support and understanding being of like minded schnauzer people has helped a lot of owners.
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Re: Life extending experiences?

Post by Oscar 12345 »

Thanks Doug for taking the time to update us. I would love to hear how it goes for you all. Wishing you the very best for today. Positive thoughts and hugs on their way.
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Re: Hugo's hopeful life extending experience.

Post by HugoBrum »

Hello All. I just thought I would give another update on Hugo since the one from Wednesday last. First of all to put readers at ease, Hugo is still here and doing very well. (Second, could one of the moderators amend the main title of the thread please to "Hugo's hopeful life extending experience").

After much turmoil and discussion, we proceeded with the 'coxofermoral disarticulation' amputation last Thursday and fortunately everything went well and as expected. He is now a Tripaw! As for us, it was an extremely worrying day, sort of complete numbness, in such not knowing what the outcome was going to be. Anyway, we collected Hugo from the Vets at about 7.30pm were he was a little out of it, no surprise and got Hugo bed down in his 'comfy' pen which is now in the lounge. Although he was a bit whingey, at around 10.00pm, Hugo decided he had enough of this and sprung to life which I mean literally. The after affects of the drugs had clearly worn off, so much so he got his large collar cone off and panic stations ensued! After a bit of a struggle, as well as a nip at my thumb, we manage to get the cone attached to his old collar and back on Hugo! Phew! Also Hugo had some a small portion of scrabbled egg and water also as well as wanting to play!

Glynis and I had already made the decision that we were going to sleep with him initially and therefore could keep an eye on him to make sure nothing untowards happened as we dont wish to extend his 10/14 day recovery period longer than needed. He has afterall got approx 20 open stitches in him as well as small opening above it too which are dissolving stitches. As some know, you do not wish them to open up what so ever otherwise recover period is longer. Time wise we dont have that luxury! The decision to sleep with him has now become the whole recovery period and we have not seen our bed since Wednesday evening last week! Part reason for this that Hugo is a very intelligent alert dog and always thinking on what could I do next!

To give you an example of this, he has figured away to turn his cone collar around so he can chew at the long plastic clip that keeps the cone together! He simply uses the side of his pen for assistance to turn it around! Consequently we keep turning it back to the top. This is a 24/7 issue so cant leave him alone. Just imagine the sound throughout the night of him doing this and then you realise, any form of sleep is at a premium as well as lying on a two seater sofa and reclining chair! Today he is now on his second cone collar! I have also manage to enlarge his pen too which is now about six foot square along, that has made a difference for his movement and comfort, the latter consist of 3 single duvets too.

Health wise, Hugo is eating and drinking fine although still will not touch wet dog food. He seems to enjoy his choice of scrabbled egg, toast, boiled fish, chicken and potatoes, as well as his dry biscuits / treats. Went to the toilet for his first pee, early Friday morning and been ok since although only had his first poo very early this morning (thankfully). Phyiscally, he is getting about fine too especially on the patio and in the garden, in some ways he is coping remarkably very well indeed but we are just apprehensive that he could knock his stitches so on constant watch! That is only thing that is holding him back!

As for Glynis and I, we are sticking in there, tired but supporting each other, one day is going into another, routine is the same and that is not allowing for the Covid 19 restrictions either. Our emotions seem to be on hold but just not knowing what the future holds but our first goal is to reach the Vet visit next week and get the all clear for his wounds. After that is to spend as much time we are able too with our Hugo. I will continue to add more news as time goes by.
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Re: Hugo’s Hopeful Life Extending Experience

Post by zeta1454 »

So happy to hear that Hugo is doing well and hope that you both manage to get a good night’s sleep soon!

Thank you for the update :)
Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole. ~Roger Caras

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Re: Hugo’s Hopeful Life Extending Experience

Post by Dawnspell »

That's good news.

Its amazing how dogs cope losing a limb much better than humans. Have you seen the videos of the 2 legged dog ? He's amazing at racing around.
With a smaller dog I guess you could have used a baby grow to stop him getting the stitches like after neutering. Bit difficult with a giant unless you have an adult onesie :)) Would a comfy collar work better than a cone ?
Our first family dog
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HugoBrum
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Born: 29 Nov 2019

Re: Hugo’s Hopeful Life Extending Experience

Post by HugoBrum »

[/quote]
zeta1454 wrote: 15 Feb 2021, 22:00 So happy to hear that Hugo is doing well and hope that you both manage to get a good night’s sleep soon! Thank you for the update :)
As for a good nights sleep soon, well not until a week on Thursday when Hugo's stitches are due out. Just glad we do not have work to content at the moment too otherwise be good for no one!
Dawnspell wrote: 16 Feb 2021, 09:52 That's good news. Its amazing how dogs cope losing a limb much better than humans. Have you seen the videos of the 2 legged dog ? He's amazing at racing around.
With a smaller dog I guess you could have used a baby grow to stop him getting the stitches like after neutering. Bit difficult with a giant unless you have an adult onesie :)) Would a comfy collar work better than a cone ?
Yes it seems to be coping amazing well but also Hugo a little frustrated too. Being fine, he wants to play around etc but all comes back to not knocking those stitches. Time and patience are the key. Mmmmm a onesie, my pet hate but yes understand were you are coming from there though. :))

As for thought about a comfy collar, we had yes but we concluded with what was available on the market, he still would be able to get his head (and especially tongue) around to his rear. The existing cone does not stop him from doing that BUT at least the cone part stops him from licking his rear.

Thank you Zeta and Dawn for your thoughts. :)
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Re: Hugo’s Hopeful Life Extending Experience

Post by Oscar 12345 »

So glad that he has come through the op ok. I look forward to hearing future updates. Look after yourselves.
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HugoBrum
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Born: 29 Nov 2019

Re: Hugo’s Hopeful Life Extending Experience

Post by HugoBrum »

Well been over two weeks since an update on Hugo and it has been encouraging to say the least.

A week ago yesterday, Hugo went to the vets to get his stitches out but he only got a few taken out as the Vet wanted to be cautious as make sure the wound was healing fine. Regardless, the Vet was happy with him and suggested to come back on the Monday to get the remaining stitches out. Unfortunately this meant Hugo keeping the cone collar on for a few more days which was frustration for my wife and I.

Upto then, Hugo was back to himself as well as getting spoit at the same time. We continue to maintain at least one of us sleeping downstairs with him, just to keep an eye on him but in the main he was fine. So it was a question of wife sleeping on the sofa or for me, sofa cushions on the floor and sleeping on top of them. Food wise, Hugo continued to eat toast for breakfast, then as the day progresses, scrabbled egg, finished off with either boiled fish or chicken with boiled potatoes, still not wanting his normal wet dog food. With going to the Vets, they suggested time to encourage Hugo to recommence eating it as understandably will help him health wise.

In every other way, Hugo was being himself, wanting love and affection, as well as some play time. With his ‘pen’ being by the lounge window, he could look outside and watch the world go by, ie people, occasional dogs and the odd cat too! We know when they were about, loud deep barking commenced! Definitely does not like the window cleaner!

Last Monday, we returned to the Vet and the remaining stitches were taken out but the cone collar must remain on for a couple more days! More frustration for both Hugo and ourselves! However, we were advised to lightly clean the area around the wound occasionally just to get rid of the dry skin and send an image to the Vet on Thursday to see how things are improving.

In the meantime, the good news, he started to eat wet dog food again which meant we could reduce other the other food in consequence. The only exception, he loves his toast in the morning so that continues!

Thursday (yesterday) arrived and image sent with the Vet being very happy with the whole area and now ok to remove the cone collar off but keep an eye on what Hugo naturally will do to clean the area himself. This news meant Hugo would be very happy and we could now give Hugo the proper unrestricted hugs he deserved. We could not remove the cone collar fast enough and normal service resumed. During the afternoon, I finally sat on the sofa and a cone collar free Hugo sat with me, lapping up the affection getting from me! It was very nice indeed.

The other good news, for the first time in three weeks, wife and I slept together in our bed! Yay! However, in order to do this, as a percaution, we decided to put the cone collar back on Hugo for bedtime purposes only, just give the wound area few more days to heal completely. May be over cautious but peace of mind while we are unable to watch him.

One thing we have learnt about Hugo, everyone who comes across him, loves him and think he is fantastic as he so engaging with them. Even the neighbours bought him some biscuits and a ‘monkey’ toy which touch us to say the least. Strangely, this makes it harder for us mentally and emotionally, as we know more than ever it is going to be hard when he is not part of our lives anymore!

So that brings the situation up to date and now to make the most of what we have with him, is it days, weeks, months, no one knows but he will not want for anything that is for sure with all the love and affection that goes with it too.
Nina But never forget Hugo.
My owners are Doug and Glynis
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