What color will this puppy be when mature?

[Frederickdawg]

I'm not too familiar with the salt and pepper coloring. The mum of this pup was white and dad was salt and pepper. What confuses me is the lighter furnishing around the eyes . The dad was present as was the white mum. The dad had dark furnishing around his eyes. Cheers

[zeta1454]

Hi Freddy - I am so sorry to see that your Cleo passed away recently. The loss of a much loved dog is so heartbreaking and I do feel for you, knowing how hard it can be.

Regarding your question about the colouring of the puppy pictured, it is impossible really to predict what colour a puppy will be when the parents are two different colours even within the same breed. Pepper and salt schnauzers also vary as to how dark or light the colouring is and the colour will only be maintained in any event by hand stripping. Clipping a coat will result in the dog becoming whatever colour the undercoat is which generally will be lighter and a solid colouring. Pepper and salt mini schnauzers have banded hairs which gives the characteristic ‘pepper and salt’ appearance but this only becomes clearly noticeable as the mature harsh hairs come through. Just knowing the parents’ colour may also not reveal the full picture as regards colour - it could be affected by genes carried for other variants from further back in the pedigree. For example, two pepper and salt dogs may produce a black and silver puppy if both carry that gene from further back in their ancestry.

If this puppy is your new one, I would just wait and see how s/he matures as regards colour. It is most likely to be quite a light colouring in any event given the parents and the photos you have posted

[Frederickdawg]

Thanks for your kind words. Just reading it and such brings tears to my eyes. The house is so empty, it's painful.

[Frederickdawg]

I was more curious to the color of coat around the eyes, aka the mask area. It seems light at the moment but not white like his beard muzzle area. Thanks.

One other question, which really I should have asked the breeder. After all we did spend like 1-2 hours with the pup and family in her home.
This pup is over 13 weeks old and the last one of the litter. Rest were sold. She said the pup will be available after having her eye examination on Friday. I'm getting paranoid as to why he's going to see an eye doctor. When the test of the pack of puppies that were sold hadn't.

[Schnauzerluv]

Not sure about the eye test, but I would guess your pup will be a light salt and pepper with minimal mask. Some have less or more than others. I know a S&P mini who is almost all white in the face (a very very light silver).

[zeta1454]

Regarding the eye testing, all miniature schnauzers should really be annually eye screened as they are a breed which can suffer several hereditary eye conditions. Most pet owners probably won’t do annual tests but it is really important that anyone breeding their dogs does make sure that both parent dogs have been screened within twelve months of the mating and preferably have some earlier eye test results in previous years to confirm they do not have any indication of hereditary eye disease which may be passed on to their puppies. Some of the conditions can only be tested for after a dog has reached six months or older but puppies between the ages of 5-8 weeks old can be screened for Congenital Hereditary Cataracts and the usual procedure is for a breeder to have the whole litter screened in this period at the same time before they go to new homes in order to provide the family with the certificate to show the pups are clear.

This kind of eye testing is not because there is a condition but in order to avoid one. However, the screening is a physical examination not a DNA test so does need repeating in adult dogs to identify any issues that may arise in the future.

I don’t know why this particular puppy would be eye screened on its own and at such a late stage so I would be asking the breeder for more details about why this is happening and why the whole litter was not screened at the same time or have not been screened at all.

This is from the U.K. Miniature Schnauzer Club website with a bit more information regarding the eye conditions:

“ Congenital Hereditary Cataract (CHC): Puppies must be eye-screened for CHC, by a BVA/KC Eye Scheme panellist, between 5 & 8 weeks & before they leave the breeder. A copy of the LSF should be provided to the new owner.

Annual eye testing is necessary to identify HC or PRA, as both conditions develop later.

Hereditary Cataract (HC) – can only be diagnosed from about 6 months onward, and sometimes even later than aged 2 years. All Dogs must be eye-tested prior to breeding.

Generalised Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA) may not appear until 12 months upwards, but may be detected in some breeds at any point between 6 months and 6 years. The earliest reported case in Miniature Schnauzers was in a 3-year old.

To summarise: all Miniature Schnauzers should be eye-tested before being bred from, and then annually, whilst used in any breeding programme, irrespective of age.”

[Frederickdawg]

Thanks for your reply. The third paragraph of your response is my concern. Just wondering how to word it in a text to her.
I think I'll just ask why this puppy is being screened and wasn't with the rest that were sold perhaps. ?
If the breeder was dubious surely they wouldn't have even mentioned it and sold me the pup that day. I don't know. It's all confusing.
I'm still crushed by the loss of Cleo. Tell me something how can a loss of a pet have such an effect on a person ? Sorry to go off topic.

[Frederickdawg]

Just an update. I did message the breeder but as of 10 hours ago didn't receive a response.

[Dawnspell]

I think if youre concerned then walk away. You are very emotional at the minute with the loss of Cleo so giving yourself extra stress and worry about the puppy will not help you.

I noticed Cleo was only 7 was there a health problem ? We lost Barney age 6 due to kidney failure. Its really hard when theyre young as you think youre going to have them around for at least double that time. I think they have such an effect because you dont have any barriers with your dog because they dont judge you like people can so they weedle their way into your hearts even more. Dont let anyone tell you it was just a dog. The grief of losing a pet is just as real as losing a human.

[zeta1454]

Losing a loved dog is a significant bereavement and it can take a long time to come to terms with their absence. So much of your life will have been affected by Cleo in the years she was part of your family and all those memories and your commitment to her in that time make the loss a deep one. In my experience, you never ‘get over’ the bereavement but the pain becomes less intense and you carry the loss deeper inside you.

As said above, maybe it would be better to allow some time to grieve before introducing another pup especially if you have doubts or worries about the integrity of the breeder. You should have been shown the eye screening results for the parent dogs in any event to indicate whether they are clear of any eye conditions and, if these are not available, I would walk away. I can understand you wanting to fill the void left by Cleo passing but better to wait and find a good trustworthy breeder than take an opportunity for a puppy from one where there are doubts, and regret it in the years to come.

[Frederickdawg]

I think if youre concerned then walk away. You are very emotional at the minute with the loss of Cleo so giving yourself extra stress and worry about the puppy will not help you.

I noticed Cleo was only 7 was there a health problem ? We lost Barney age 6 due to kidney failure. Its really hard when theyre young as you think youre going to have them around for at least double that time. I think they have such an effect because you dont have any barriers with your dog because they dont judge you like people can so they weedle their way into your hearts even more. Dont let anyone tell you it was just a dog. The grief of losing a pet is just as real as losing a human.

Thanks for your reply, appreciated it.
Cleo was 7.5 I believe , and it was kidney failure. She was diagnosed with kidney failure on the 17th August 2021. Her createnine and bun levels were off the chart almost. We started subcutaneous fluid and put her on a strict prescription based kidney diet. Things really improved , meaning she kept her food down and her blood kidney function levels got better. But during the last weekend before she was put to rest ( Sept 28th) she started to stop eating and drinking completely. We increased the subcutaneous fluid to daily but it didn't help anymore. I even tried getting the juice of her kidney canned food and feed her via syringe orally. She's just vomit bile. She declined rapidly due to lack of food and the build of toxins and we didn't want her to suffer anymore, since she hadn't eaten since Saturday or Friday last time.
This time last week at this exact time we were waiting at the vet's place. It was 12.30pm local time she was euthanized. I'm still crying about it as I type this message.

It's a terrible disease and condition.

[Frederickdawg]

Losing a loved dog is a significant bereavement and it can take a long time to come to terms with their absence. So much of your life will have been affected by Cleo in the years she was part of your family and all those memories and your commitment to her in that time make the loss a deep one. In my experience, you never ‘get over’ the bereavement but the pain becomes less intense and you carry the loss deeper inside you.

As said above, maybe it would be better to allow some time to grieve before introducing another pup especially if you have doubts or worries about the integrity of the breeder. You should have been shown the eye screening results for the parent dogs in any event to indicate whether they are clear of any eye conditions and, if these are not available, I would walk away. I can understand you wanting to fill the void left by Cleo passing but better to wait and find a good trustworthy breeder than take an opportunity for a puppy from one where there are doubts, and regret it in the years to come.

Yes I whole heartedly agree. We both worked from home, and Cleo was with us for almost every minute of those 7.5 years. She was my wife's shadow. I don't think I've ever been this much in pain over a loss of a pet. And I'm 50 years old.

[Frederickdawg]

We decided not purchase this puppy in the end. The breeder responded back to my question about the eye testing three days after I raised my query.
We purchased this fellow, his name is Tobias. Born July the 7th. First pic is of him at our home in his crate before me cutting his hair. Lol.

[zeta1454]

Wishing you many happy years to come with Tobias. He looks a lovely boy

[Schnauzerluv]

Congrats what a sweet boy!