Pancreatis and raw/air dried pure food

[BBub]

It would seem that most advice is to watch fat content to avoid pancreatitis.
We have a puppy that obviously needs a higher calorie and fat/protein content for growth, so getting the balance is crucial until we can reduce fat content when growth has stopped.

We are currently feeding Ziwipeak dried beef (as a result of a special offer for this very expensive pure meat air dried diet). So it's a high fat and protein, very low carb "prey diet", but very dense nutritionally for a 6kg pup that only needs 130g a day total to hit the Kcal requirement. Our pup loves this stuff compared to the kibble and Royal Canin Schnauzer Puppy food she was on before.

When we contacted Ziwipeak to enquire whether this would be suitable food for a schnauzer, specifically asking about pancreatis, they sent us information that they believe the natural diet is far more preferable to a processed food, carb-laden diet that can cause inflammatory disease.

https://peterdobias.com/blogs/blog/1101 ... l-approach

This is interesting because it's similar to what we're discovering in humans who are cutting out carbs and reversing previously thought irreversible and lifelong conditions like T2 diabetes. The covid situation seems to have also adversely affected people with prior inflammatory conditions that could have been caused by eating a low quality processed food diet caused by the body's reaction to cheap high carbohydrate foods that pack supermarket shelves these days.

Has anybody noticed that the reduction of carbs and processed food in a raw/air dried pure diet has made a difference to pancreatis occurrence?
Anybody fed a raw diet and ended up with more occurences of pancreatis?

Thanks.

[zeta1454]

I have fed our dogs on a raw meat / veg diet now for almost 14 years and would definitely recommend this in principle as being an appropriate diet for an animal whose teeth and digestive system are designed to eat and process a high protein / fat food such as meat and fish with minimal carbohydrates. The other issue with highly processed foods such as kibble even when they are made from meat /veg. is that the processing destroys many or all of the naturally occurring nutrients which are then added back in artificially. As you say, the link between eating too much highly processed food especially those heavy in carbohydrates has been made undeniable with regard to humans so how much more so for a dog whose system is not designed to process high levels of carbohydrates efficiently.

As much as anything it is the poor quality of many processed dog foods that contributes to ill health but the process itself plays a crucial part. Although miniature schnauzers are thought of be at greater risk than some other breeds to pancreatitis, we have not had any issues of this kind with our minis over the past 25 years. I buy prepared frozen raw meals for ours and have used several different companies over the years but do choose those with under 14% fat as one of our current minis (who was not raw fed before we got her) does have the occasional upset tummy and I would not want to risk her getting ill. I do believe though that the fat which is naturally occurring in foods such as in raw meat / fish is far easier for dogs to digest and process efficiently than the same or other fats that have gone through a heat process or other treatment which will inevitably have changed them. This also applies to plant oils / proteins which are often found in cheaper kibble and which is less easy for a dog to absorb or gain nutrients from than those found in meat or fish.

The more biologically appropriate the diet, the less likely that a dog will suffer pancreatitis or other ailments that are often due to poor nutrition. I cannot comment though specifically on Ziwipeak as I haven’t used this brand or an air-dried frozen food with our dogs.

[Dawnspell]

I don't have any experience with pancreatitis. I have been giving Jasper ziwipeak lamb and mackerel he much prefers this to cold food pressed food. Although he's not exclusively fed it be also has freeze dried raw and home cooked. I've heard of a few people who feed raw giving this when they go on holiday as an alternative.

What I wanted to say is I'm waiting for a couple of samples from innocent hound a UK based company. They also do air dried like ziwipeak but it is lower in fat, it's also cheaper but rates higher than ziwipeak on all about dog food website.
https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk

[BBub]

but do choose those with under 14% fat as one of our current minis (who was not raw fed before we got her) does have the occasional upset tummy and I would not want to risk her getting ill.

This is something i need to get my head around from looking at the various feeding calculators, which are usually based on the kCal requirement for energy and the age/size of the dog.
The lower fat foods need you to feed a higher volume to get the same amount of energy, so the total fat content ends up being the same.

The ziwipeak venison seems to get the highest health rating because it's lower fat, but for our dog you need to feed 155g per day instead of 130g for the beef/lamb etc, so it's more expensive but the dog still ends up with the same amount of fat anyway?
Maybe the same amount of fat spread over a greater meat volume makes it more digestible?

[BBub]

I have been giving Jasper ziwipeak lamb and mackerel he much prefers this to cold food pressed food. Although he's not exclusively fed it be also has freeze dried raw and home cooked. I've heard of a few people who feed raw giving this when they go on holiday as an alternative.

This has been our problem from taking delivery of a puppy that had only been fed puppy lamb kibble but mixed with home-cooked beef mince, carrots and broccoli; we had no idea of the nutritional value or fat content so had no idea how much to feed, especially as she's growing so fast and we need to keep adjusting.
I think the good brands do give you a proper ingredients and percentage breakdowns so it's easier to do accurate calculations.

[zeta1454]

I wouldn’t worry over exact percentages of nutrients if you are feeding a quality food. With the raw food we give young puppies approximately 10% of body weight spread over several meals initially tapering down as they reach adulthood to between 2-3% body weight of the dog. If the food is made up of quality meat / fish with organ meat included as well as muscle meat and bone, the nutrients should be there naturally. It will be a constant adjustment in any case with puppies as they mature and, as long as Peppermint is growing well on what you are feeding her and is fit and active, then I wouldn’t fret too much over calorie / fat content.

There will always be individual differences between dogs anyway as regards their metabolism, how much energy they burn off through exercise etc. even within a family of related dogs. We have 12 dogs, all over a year old, many of whom are related by birth to each other and yet at mealtimes they don’t all have the same amount of food as some can eat larger amounts and remain slender and others put on weight easily. Do check the advised amounts /percentages on the packaging so you know what you are feeding Peppermint but, as you say, the best brands will be choosing ingredients to provide a balanced and nutritious meal for dogs so much of the calculation re this should have been done for you but you can adjust this if you see that she is not thriving as she should do on a particular amount in the future.

[BBub]

She is now 7 months old and 7.7kg.
The Ziwipeak has been amazing, maybe it's just natural body changes but she has a real lean shape with no barrel chest or podginess, but that muscular stance is there and she goes like a bullet. No issues with digestion or refusing the food, but she only gets 140g per day and seems happy with that and the occasional bit of greenery.
The kCal requirement reduces from now on until adulthood so it will help the bank balance. I find myself looking for the offers because it's not a cheap food at all, but with only 1 little dog and minimal free time it probably works out ok for the convenience and not needing to mess with wet food or store stuff in our tiny freezer.

[Schnauzer Sam]

I read an article by an Irish canine nutritionist who is a supporter of raw feeding and the link is here https://dogsfirst.ie/health-issues/caus ... s-in-dogs/

I'm try and summarise what he said.

The purpose of the pancreas is to produce hormones used by the body to regulate various functions but a dog has a small pancreas as, by nature, they do not eat carbohydrates, just protein and fat.

He believes that if a dog is brought up on a BARF diet then there is no real need to worry about fat content.

His theory is that fats only matter if the pancreas has already been damaged by previous over exposure to carbohydrates. Then and only then do you need to keep an eye on fat content.

[Schnauzerluv]

That is interesting, TX Schnauzer Sam